Chat with writer Fiona Avery - July 8th, 2000

Original transcript kindly provided by John Freeman, former VZSciFi project manager who appears in this chat as Mr. Templeton.

The following excerpt is from the VZSciFi website regarding this community chat.

This transcript has been edited in co-operation with Fiona Avery, and to remove a strange digression as what we believe to be younger members of VZones took great delight in the knowledge that the event was being screened to the Nexus Convention (http://www.enterthenexus.com/) goers in Bristol! The guilty know who they are…
For reasons of making some sense on the electronic page, we have also sadly omitted the ongoing fun with a bunch of flowers Fiona kept getting presented with…

Attendees included: Anna70*7; Congobill; Cordielia; Erin; ~€KiTkAtKaNdY€~*; •~~~~~~Roxxie~~~~~~~•; Soichi Tomoe; Jalore (MedSupport); Marty1, Ms. Melinda; Linsue; Marty1; ~•Violet•~; VORLON(HD). Not all attendees or ghosts are listed here. the event was moderated by John Freeman (Mr. Templeton)

This is a screenshot of the community chat, but sadly it was in a really low resolution so some upscaling has been applied. Apologies for the bad quality of the image.

Mr. Templeton: Welcome to everyone here in VZSciFi and at the Nexus convention, who are watching today's creator event with on a big screen in Bristol, England. Give the real humans a wave, folks!

Fiona: Oops, I'm waving furry animals around!

Mr. Templeton: Today's guest is author Fiona Avery.

Mr. Templeton: Fiona's credits include reference editor for Babylon 5, and writer for Crusade, the B5 follow up series.

Mr. Templeton: Some of her work now appears on the electronic read-only web site bookface.com and I recommend checking that out.

Fiona: I got cool news about that too, remind me to tell ya...

Mr. Templeton: This is a moderated event. If you would like to ask a question, please ESP me and then I will ask you to ask it. Bear in mind I will get a few questions so you might have to be patient.

Mr. Templeton: If you are a ghost, I will voice your question for you. And people in Bristol will be asking questions too…

Fiona: Heehee ... I confess I've never been interviewed by an alien before now. What would Oprah think?

Mr. Templeton: Fiona, perhaps we could start by asking: when did you know you wanted to be a writer?

Fiona: Honestly this is kind of a tricky question for me ... because I just started to write, rather than having an immediate ID as a writer in training.

Fiona: I suppose I realized I wanted to be a writer when I finished my first novel.

Fiona: I started writing the novel, just to write it ... so thinking 'I will be a writer' when I finished didn't actually happen.

Fiona: When I was done I thought, 'Now what? Oh, I guess I should publish this'. Or try. It's in my closet now. heehee!

Mr. Templeton: What was your first published work?

Fiona: My first published work ....

Fiona: <hmm ... pulling out my clipping book here>

Fiona: I wrote an article on a producer for Indiana Alumni magazine.

Fiona: That was the first thing I was ever published with ... it was a very fun interview. He was a producer of archaeology documentaries. I got to do the whole thing! Interview with tape recorder, go on location and see what he was up to, view footage...

Fiona: That was my first official publication. In terms of fiction, I was not published until my first episode of Crusade, which aired in June 1999, The Well of Forever.

Fiona: I went from a publication of like 500 people to 10 million viewers… I think I still have the one grey hair I sprouted! heehee

Mr. Templeton: A question from the audience here in Bristol: how did you get involved in Crusade?

Fiona: Well, that one interview with the producer of documentaries led to looking for other material in a similar vein: you try to accumulate your credits by finding like things of higher magnitude.

Fiona: Interview a producer, interview a TV producer, interview a director of latest high-budget film etc.

Fiona: I was trying out my hand as a journalist -- lol! And I decided to interview Joe Straczynski because he was a producer of a TV show who was very approachable for interviews. He even had a direct email addy. These things are very handy for journalists!

Fiona: So when I emailed him and conducted an interview with him (after setting it up and it being ok) I asked, as an archaeologist/anthropologist, how he intended to keep the facts straight in Crusade (a show about archaeology of distant planets in search of a cure for a plague on Earth).

Fiona: He said 'We're hoping to find a person who knows the facts, who is a writer/editor, who can help with the details. Why?'

Fiona: I said 'Hey, I'm an archaeologist (this is my degree from college) and I'm a writer and you want my resume?'. So my whole journalism career is now shot thanks to Joe. LOL!

Fiona: I could have been the next Peter Jennings but no! Now I write for TV. Jeez…

Linsue: That’s so cool

Mr. Templeton: But did you expect to be writing some of the scripts?

Fiona: I honestly did not expect that he would be interested in my writing.

Fiona: I was working as the 'Reference Editor' which was making sure all text and manuscripts etc. (and toys merchandise) were as canon as humanly possible. They had nicknamed me at the set Bulldog.

Fiona: In fact, I still have my engraved nameplate with Fiona 'Bulldog' Avery on it. It was for my tenacity in fact checking and stuff, and my never-let-it-go personality.

Fiona: I'm never sure if I should be flattered or horrified by that nickname.

Linsue: lol

Soichi Tomoe: lol

Fiona: When I told Joe I wanted to write scripts, he was interested in knowing if I'd ever written them. I said I had a spec SF script and he asked to see it.

Fiona: Point of Fact: Producers have to ask to see your work. If you thrust it at them -- ferget working in this town [Los Angeles]. So, I showed it to him and cringed. It was really baaaaad. Heehee! I look at that little script now and I just die.

Fiona: It is also in my closet, next to my novel! But he began to tutor me as a new writer -- possibly to be a staff writer -- on his series.

Fiona: He had it in mind to have several new writers on Crusade's second season, some of which, you know ... we had folks like Peter David and Larry DiTillio.

Fiona: They are of course pros who I am just in awe of. Like that whole tango scene with Dureena that Peter did [in Ruling From The Tomb] I'm like ... must think outside the box! Anyway, I was definitely honoured to be asked.

Ms. Melinda: which did you want to be a journalist or a sci fi writer?

Fiona: Oh, I definitely wanted to be a writer -- but I love journalism for what it affords, too. I wanted to be a journalist to have a nice steady income, because fiction writing is always spotty. Best to have many things to do for income. But of the two, I prefer writing fiction.

Ms. Melinda: But are they not totally opposites…

Fiona: Exactly.

Mr. Templeton: If you want to write, you write... nothing will stop you?

Fiona: Yup! Just put pen to paper and go.

Mr. Templeton: But finishing it is the trick.

Fiona: Yes, you must always write, finish, and sell.

Ms. Melinda: I always end up with blank paper…

Mr. Templeton: Question from the audience here: did J. Michael Straczynski have a strong idea of character remit for Crusade?

Fiona: Character Remit? What's that? <don't laugh at me!>

Mr. Templeton: A character bible?

Fiona: Ohhhh… Yes, he had a big ol' bible for Crusade with many pages on each character. There were strong limitations about Galen, so my Well of Forever script was a big challenge.

Mr. Templeton: Such as?

Fiona: You had to be careful not to make Galen the all-powerful knowing super osmosis dealin' awesome doodlin' on walls, kick yer butt I'm wicked mage.

Fiona: It was definitely something you'd go in and say 'I'd like Galen to hijack the Excalibur'. Joe'd look at you like you were insane ... then he'd ask you how he'd do it. And you told him your theory, and he'd modify it, to make Galen more mysterious and hide a lot of what you wanted to show.

Fiona: The trick of the mage is in hiding his talents well. It's kind of a tease the audience thing. Slight of hand is the hardest thing to play.

Mr. Templeton: So there were some pretty big restrictions on the character's powers?

Fiona: Yes, you have to save up those powers for a big wallup when necessary.

Fiona: For example, I wanted to show Galen in his ship but didn't want to give anything away. If you saw The Well ... then you know Galen's ship is a big black void inside. What he needs, he reaches out for, and it is given to him.

Fiona: It makes it more mysterious than showing full out oooooh techy stuff coolies gadgets ... This was definitely something that Joe helped me to design to its full potential.

Mr. Templeton: A bag of holding in reverse?

Fiona: Yup! Joe thinks inside out like that.

Linsue: How does writing a script for a series differ from writing a novel or short story?

Fiona: Oh, that's a great question. I just finished a first draft for Earth: Final Conflict, as a good example. I also just finished my 'first' novel… This is the novel real people will see and I won't shriek in horror ;)

Fiona: When I wrote for EFC, I went in saying 'I am your gun for hire here'. What they wanted, they got. If they wanted me to go into a whole new section of story in act three, and see a whole new piece of evidence etc., that's what they got. Because it is their show.

Fiona: As a writer, it is imperative that you have a team-spirit in LA, when working on collaborative projects. When I got notes on Thursday, I was not in the least defensive about them because the notes were the staff members and Exec Prods way of making sure I became more detail-oriented in their script. They would say 'This whole scene is flat'. I'd say, 'What can we do to make it more meaningful, give me pieces I need.'

Fiona: They'd say 'Let's talk about Character X's real fears and background'. Instantly, I'd have those background elements and that scene would be more specific and tight. I could not have that without them -- Teamwork.

Fiona: In a novel, I have all the specifics I choose, and all the work is from my mind and is my genesis. To do both forms keeps one sane heehee!

Linsue: Isn't it frustrating to have your ideas curtailed by what they want?

Fiona: You know, it isn't. You would think it is, but you have to remember that it's a group effort. When you work on your own projects it really helps because you can rationally say 'This is Mine, this is Theirs'. I feel good in an odd way when I turn in a script delivered specifically to order, because that is harder and I feel more proud of working to what someone envisions and getting it spot on. I know what I want. That’s easy! heehee

Mr. Templeton: And you had the same teamwork with Joe on Crusade?

Fiona: Joe was really an amazing person to work for. I've not met someone who values words like him. He has taught me the value of words, of dialogue, of showing exactly what you want on the page. With Joe's series, it was an exception to the rule. There is one voice telling you what he wants, not a table of four to five people breaking a story with ideas throwing around. And you are allowed to 'direct on the page'.

Fiona: For those of you who aren't familiar with this term, directing on the page is like showing camera angles you want and telling an actress play this with anger. Joe is incredibly specific. He's detailed. He will take the long road to specificity. That is not the norm in TV, or film (gawd, especially film) And so, when working for Joe first ... I learned the abnormal way to do things!

Mr. Templeton: Would you say he was your 'Mentor', like he has said Harlan Ellison has been for him?

Fiona: Yes, I usually don't talk much about it, but he has taught me as he was instructed by, not just Mr. Ellison. But he also learned from Mr. Norman Corwin.

Fiona: I have kind of had the 'literary ancestral schooling'. I keep a journal of everything I have been taught, a 'career journal'. I haven't missed a day since the first episode was shot. In that journal, there are many phrases from many different authors who have inspired a whole slew of authors he learned from.

Mr. Templeton: Do you have a single piece of advice for anyone who wants to take up a writing career?

Fiona: Probably my most important piece of advice is in persistence. A writer's life is if not the hardest life to undertake, it's at least up there with the worst of the lives in terms of feast/famine.

Fiona: There will be times in a writer's life where they will not work for years. Decades. Times they can't even get arrested. But one piece of advice, I have learned from Joe: Keep at it. Keep writing. Your work will last the rough times

Cordielia: ouch…

Fiona: If you stop you will not work. If you keep going, you will build a foundation for when you can work again. Everything else is kind of a ... you know ... grammar this, succinct that, specificity lessons etc. That one is a life lesson. Valuable for all walks of life, really, too.

Mr. Templeton: A question from the Nexus audience: what was your favourite Crusade story?

Fiona: You know, I was so tickled with Path of Sorrows. It started when Joe peeks in my office and says (and I can't believe this to this date) You mind if I use your storyline with Isabelle for my episode? heehee! What a compliment!

Fiona: [Isabelle was mentioned in The Well of Forever as Galen’s lost love who was searching for The Well of Forever. She is also featured prominently in the new techno-mage novel by Jeanne Cavelos coming out soon.]

Fiona: So then I'm reading the writer's draft and I'm just in awe of where he took that, and I immediately read the scene where she's dying (hope I didn't spoil anyone) and I know who should be in this role. I have long been a fan of Sophie Ward -- in fact, she's British, right? I just adore her work, she's an amazingly talented actress. And I knew -- I just knew -- that she'd be perfect.

Fiona: So I did something I've never done before. I went into the office and I was like 'Can we like try to get uh ... maybe ... uh ... <cringe> Sophie Ward?' And the casting director kinda laughed at me. Joe kinda chuckled. They're like, 'She's really big you know, we can try but don't hold your breath

Fiona: So then they come to my office and tell me in a few days, 'Sophie Ward really loved Babylon 5! And she wants a Sci Fi credit on her roles! She's coming in!' You coulda knocked me over with a feather!

Fiona: I got to meet her and I was all blushed and flustered and fangirl. That was probably one of the most wonderful moments of Crusade for me, right up there with watching my first episode produced.

Mr. Templeton: We would have seen more of the Galen-Isabelle relationship later in the series?

Fiona: I think so, probably. Sophie really enjoyed her shoot and she was just gorgeous and perfect doing the best acting. When I was in the edit sessions and stuff, and at the mix with the sad music going over. WAH! It was so nice. Everyone was saying she was perfect.

Fiona: Isabelle is in the techno-mage novel trilogy -- I'm reading Jeanne Cavelos' first novel of that right now. Jeanne by the way, has nailed the character perfectly -- Jeanne is a phenomenal writer and you must not miss these books.

Mr. Templeton: So you are still working on Babylon 5, even now, as the reference editor?

Fiona: Yes, we have about three more novels including this one, to put out, and always we have merchandise to approve etc. New trading cards come out, new card games, dolls, what have you. So yeah, I still do that. It's a great gig.

Ms. Melinda: who is your favourite actor/actress to work with or write for?

Fiona: I love working with Dureena (Carrie Dobro) because of her character background. Dureena’s got such spunk and she's a little street urchin-type character. I like those kinds of characters, they are easy for me to write. I identify with street types.

Cordielia: have you had any bad moments collaborating with other cast members?

Fiona: Never, the actors on Crusade in particular were phenomenal. They'd come in before shooting with any questions. They were really professional folks.

Mr. Templeton: Were you involved in developing the characters as well as the rest of the team?

Fiona: I got to develop characters -- that scene in The Well of Forever with Dureena's quarters being chopped down? All her stuff was mini-sized? Joe laughed at that -- he couldn't wait to make Peter Woodward [who played Galen] try and sit down there. We were watching the takes on set. Poor Peter! It was a long way down in a trenchcoat and leather britches! We had fun with that kinda stuff.

Fiona: And Matheson [played by Daniel Dae Kim] -- he was a kick to write for all that telepathy and stuff. You had Mr. Jones being a big baddie and scanning him… Let me tell you -- Daniel [Dae Kim] sold that scene with the mental interrogation. He is such an amazing actor. Just shaking and quaking and stuff ... and that last scene where he gets to go out in hyperspace. We were watching him smile over the note. Those non-verbal moments were so good with Daniel because he is so expressive.

Mr. Templeton: Was it difficult for you to see your characters be changed / developed by the actors?

Fiona: No, not at all, I loved seeing what they brought to the role. It was like making a tiny snowball at the top of a hill and letting it roll down -- more like rolling down a mountain really -- and everyone's input just made it bigger and cooler.

Linsue: Is it easier to write when you know who the actor/actress is playing the role?

Fiona: It is easier to write their mannerisms and their little nuances. Actor personalities can slowly creep into the characters you're writing, but only the ones that benefit the particular character they're playing.

Fiona: Sometimes you see mannerisms at the lunch table or stuff, and you realize that your character would do the same kind of bowed-head thing, or say a certain phrase that the actor/actress does, and you throw it in. Sometimes it's completely subconscious and the actor shows up at your doorstep of your office and says 'Hey! Did you do this to me on purpose?' And you stare like a deer in the headlights, realizing ... 'No, but my subconscious must have.'

Mr. Templeton: Can you tell us a little about how Crusade would have developed had it continued?

Fiona: You would have seen some fragmentation among crew members ... people splitting off with unique agendas. There would have been some really great stuff in Season Two, but if I told you, two men would show up at my door (in black robes) and haul me off to The Well of Forever.

Fiona: We also would have seen about Dureena’s people the ones who were infected by the plague [as seen in Patterns of the Soul]. We had plans to deal with that again.

Mr. Templeton: Walter Koenig spoke a little about your unproduced script here in Bristol... can you tell us about that?

Fiona: Oh ... Value Judgements. Everyone in UK and outside the US: If you've been dying to read this script and I'm a poopyhead and won't mail it out internationally: go to www.bookface.com. You will be able to read that and my other two scripts -- free!

Fiona: So that script ... We were bringing Bester into the Crusade universe as a guest appearance in Value Judgements I wanted to portray him as a man with an adjunct purpose. Not as an evil villain, who twirls his moustache.

Fiona: Of all my scripts, Joe had the least notes on Value Judgements. I was afraid -- terrified -- that writing Bester would be horrible. That I wouldn't know how to do it and he'd be a flake. But I sat down, and again one of those little things I've learned is: don't 'think it up' just listen and 'jot it down'. I started listening to Bester when it was time for him to come onstage.

Fiona: I'm telling you -- he started -- and he still hasn't shut up! He is the most verbose, wonderful, talented, awesome, sophisticated villain!

Fiona: Every once in a while I'll be at a trendy coffee shop, getting a latte, and Bester will pop into my head analysing people in line. I'll be like 'Hey! What are you doing here? I don't wanna hear what you think of that woman's tattoo!'

Cordielia: lol

Fiona: So, he was so much fun and he was effortless to listen to. He's not shy you know ... he gabs. Oh, does he gab.

Mr. Templeton: Do you think there is any chance Crusade will return now?

Fiona: I really don't think so ... it's not entirely possible at this point. Maybe we will return in fiction though, like books, mags, shorts etc.

Cordielia: where do you get your inspiration, and who do you find interesting to watch or read?

Fiona: My inspiration: this is tricky! You know who I love and just can’t get enough of is ... Roger Zelazny's Amber series characters. I was naturally drawn to the Fiona character who was 5'2" and red haired -- a sorceress. I mean -- I think I'm a shadow of her LOL! But, I loved his archetype. And his people were so wonderfully written.

Fiona: I also like Sherlock Holmes -- I’ve read all Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's books/stories but you know ... Sherlock is the awesomest! I love Lovecraft.

Fiona: Lessee here... Emma Thompson is hanging on my wall er -- her pic.

Cordielia: rofl

Fiona: That Vanity Fair cover with her in armour. She's a goddess. Jodi Foster is next to her as Anna from the latest Anna and the King movie. I love Jodi Foster.

Fiona: Oh, Kurosawa. Kurosawa was the most amazing film director / producer ever. I watched Seven Samurai and just boggled. When I think of telling stories on film/tv ... I go back to Kurosawa. 'Show the story, don't tell the story'. (And that's another little nugget from my literary ancestors!)

Fiona: I'm also fond of Rogue of the X-Men (and no there isn't an X-Men movie coming out in my universe). See, Rogue needs a white spot on her head and a nice green/gold outfit sans cape so I'm just cringing about the new movie. Well, okay I will confess, I was hoping they'd do her traditionally, so I could get a nice Hallowe’en costume ;)

Mr. Templeton: Would it be possible to radio dramas of Crusade? Like they're doing in the UK with Doctor Who?

Fiona: That is definitely an option. I know Scifi.com is looking into lots of avenues for the show B5 and certainly will take a look at what to do with its spin off. We're still kind of anticipating here ... letting Sci Fi Channel [parent to scifi.com] choose what it wants to do, letting things come about organically without forcing them. (Organically? good one Fi)

Mr. Templeton: It sounds like the Scifi deal is going to be a good one for B5 fans though…

Fiona: I am so excited about that ... if you haven't heard: in the US, Sci Fi is going to show B5 daily, in a high profile time slot and wonderful regular showings.

Ms. Melinda: Oh wow, great

Fiona: I almost said regularity and then realised I'd be talking about a commercial for a laxative or something heehee

Linsue: lmao

Fiona: So, Sci Fi is great! They have really taken it up and made B5 a big deal. Couldn't be on a better channel as far as I'm concerned. It feels like home.

Mr. Templeton: So although B5 is still a big part of your life, but you other projects you are working on?

Fiona: Oh man ... tons! The Earth: Final Conflict episode is getting finalized now. Revisions this week. I can't talk too much about it -- lest I see two Taelons at my door taking me up to the Mothership.

Mr. Templeton: Nope.

Ms. Melinda: Oh dern, we don't want that to happen.

Soichi Tomoe: Eeek.

Fiona: I'm going in next week to sign a contract for a new comic book... my very own comic book <big girly giggle> I cannot tell you how long this thing has been in the works ... and I'm so excited about it! When I have the contract worked out, and everything's copasetic and understood about how we'll promote the comic -- I will break big news.

Fiona: [Wizard Magazine gets exclusive news coverage and will hopefully come out with information on the comic in November]. After they break the news, it will be reported on my Email Newsletter Fionaverse -- All Fiona All the Time -- it's at Egroups.com.

Fiona: And then there's my novel. 180 pages of line edits left on this mammoth. It is historical fantasy/romance set in the reign of King Louis IX (1245ish) dealing with saints, relics, powers of state, conspiracy, warfare, love, marriage, rebellion etc. It's a lot like Elizabeth but earlier, and with more fantastic elements. It's my college degree working, man! lol

Mr. Templeton: you should have been here and talked to Mary Gentle last week :)

Fiona: She's fabulous -- a great person. <thinking>… Oh! I have a radio drama adaptation coming out at Seeing Ear Theater. I have two right now: The Lucky Strike [this started airing over the internet on 21 July - Ed]. Timothy Hutton stars. He's the first academy award winner they've got on board -- huge name. You will not wanna miss this radio drama -- it is bigtime!

Fiona: It's Kim Stanley Robinson's short story, The Lucky Strike. What happens when you decide not to follow orders and not bomb Japan during WWII? A very touchy issue for many Americans, but I think it's something we need to really think about.

Fiona: I was proud to be able to adapt it... just honoured and flattered. I treated KSR's words like gold. So please come to hear that -- beautiful story -- beautiful lead star!

Fiona: And after that they will put out Ursula K Le Guin's Buffalo Gals, Won't you Come Out Tonight. I adapted this as well, and they are looking for some really amazing lead actress to play Coyote. It's a story about Native American traditions, about a girl who gets lost among Native American gods in the wilderness. Coyote is the main star, apart from the little girl. Some really popular actresses are reading it over right now -- gonna be fun too.

Fiona: I have many short stories at bookface.com. You can do a web search on their site for Fiona Avery and pull up my two shorts now, and one more added soon. If you like Fantasy, they're launching a new Fantasy sub-site. I highly recommend their fantasy authors -- they are brilliant -- many from Marion Zimmer Bradley magazine’s long tradition of publishing wonderful high fantasy.

Fiona: I'll have a fantasy story or two up as well, but these women authors from MZB are just -- I'm out of their league, they're brilliant so go see that.

Fiona: And my Crusade scripts from 24 July -- I wanted to make them available to all outside the US. It's crummy to try and get stuff from US when you're not in the US ... hard on postage. So now you can see my scripts for free!

Mr. Templeton: Fiona, thank you so much for talking to us today... the folks here are having to close the room we are in now (hotel types with Taelons beside them)...

Fiona: Thanks for having me! T’were fun!