CompuServe Forum Posts
These are recovered posts from the CompuServe forums.
1995
May
CC's long painful death
Subj: CC's long painful death Section: Island Caribe To: Lee Abraham, xxxxx,xxx Friday, May 12, 1995 8:45:30 PM From: Hunter Brown /Sysop, xxxxx,xxxx #4158 Hiya Lee, In looking through some messages here, one popped out on the sad thoughts about Club Caribe dying. You mentioned, "it is VITAL that the creators do not withdraw their support from either the staff or the customers." What exactly happened with Club Caribe? We here have a Member Support Deparment (us friendly sysops), a whole World Design Team, Programers, Systems and Server Admin, Marketing People, you name it! Hopefully we won't go the same course that doomed CC's eventual demise into not reaching 256 colors unlike the latest and greatest which WorldsAway will be. Also, it has been required reading for every team member to read "Snow Crash" by Neal Stephenson and the team is genuinely interested in having WorldsAway be a great, unique electronic social entity on the Cyberspace frontier. I feel we've all been hand picked to help create this wonderful environment for all the real world to play and be in. It's our mission too for WorldsAway to be consistent and visionary in it's attempt to be an experience appart form the real world. "Dreams and Cyberspace are the only two places that exists nowhere, yet somewhere..."--Anonymous (Amen!) What might you think could go wrong with WorldsAway? How can we avoid the same snafu and eventual tradgedy? Your message almost sounded like there was a philosophic and visionary falling-out with Club Caribe? What happened? Hunter /sysop we want to know!:)
Subj: CC's long painful death Section: Island Caribe To: Hunter Brown /Sysop, xxxxx,xxxx Saturday, May 13, 1995 10:11:07 AM From: Halthron/Cntrstrike, xxxxx,xxxx #4202 Hunter, I left Caribe about 9 months before its final demise. Support had left and there really wasn't any drive to keep it alive from the upper management. They frequently did not even show up in Caribe for weeks and when they did, they never answered mail even from their staffers. Nerves got very frayed by the lack of concern and one by one, staffers started to leave. The best way not to let WA go the way of Caribe is to stick by your product. Try to keep new ideas and new blood filtering in by adding new staff as much as possible. If you do decide in the distant future to let it drop, kill it fast and don't let it dwindle down to 1 person per night and decide you finally have had enough. Carolann/Cntrstrike/CCH Kitty
Subj: CC's long painful death Section: Island Caribe To: Hunter Brown /Sysop, xxxxx,xxxx Saturday, May 13, 1995 7:29:24 PM From: F. Randall Farmer, xxxxx,xxxx #4252 It was simple economics (as far as Quantum was concerned.) They were winding down support for QLink, and ramping up PCLink (which became America Online.) Though CC was very popular, it was a game, and AOL doesn't do games. The margins are thinner than store-and-forget information services and downloads. The C-64 market was slowly dieing. What I find amazing was how strong the support the CC community was in reconstituting a fully-user-run support group. I once downloaded the story of the 'Return of the CCG's', which gave the organizations start a mythic flavor. Perhaps one of the folks here still hase a copy? Anyway, things have changed (economically), and WorldsAway will ship on the two most popular computer platforms in the world. I *KNOW* that the citizens will make it profitable for all concerned :-). Otherwise Fujitsu would have never signed up for the project, I assure you. Randy
Subj: CC's long painful death Section: Island Caribe To: F. Randall Farmer, xxxxx,xxxx Saturday, May 13, 1995 9:38:07 PM From: Hunter Brown /Sysop, xxxxx,xxxx #4268 Working for Fujitsu and as a partner with CompuServe, these two HUGE companies, I feel that there will be a nice long life for WorldsAway. There is nothing shotty about these organizations, that is for sure! BUT, I want to add to Randy's comments that beyond the economics of this venture, I think we'll do our best to keep Kymer alive and support you all, right to the bitter end (an end which would only come I bet by act of a HUGE upgrade somehow.) I really don't think there will be an end though! This is much too much fun! Anyhow, we won't treat you bad if we're having a bad day:) Hunter /sysop
Subj: CC's long painful death Section: Island Caribe To: Hunter Brown /Sysop, xxxxx,xxxx Saturday, May 13, 1995 11:51:15 PM From: Lee Abraham, xxxxx,xxx #4283 Hi Hunter - Randy pretty much answered the practical side of your question, and Carolann made some excellent comments. But I'll answer your question from my point of view. One word of warning: this is probably gonna be long. I'm not noted for brevity. <wink> As Randy said, it was an economic decision by Quantum, and Caribe's death was set in motion in January, 1991 when there was an inhouse layoff. The inhouse team which supported CC, the Casino and another game called Puzzler was cut from four to one, with occasional assistance from someone who'd been transferred to the PC area. The person most familiar with how CC operated was one who was laid off. The one person remaining had little knowledge of how CC worked and was also responsible for ALL of Q's games. Thus, she had little time to devote to CC. Soon after this inhouse layoff, our staff of 23 CCGs was cut back to 7, our hours were cut in half, and our CCG titles were taken away from us. Many of our events required assistance from inhouse staff (the creation of books, special items, etc.) and we no longer had the support we'd once had. This greatly affected our ability to continue hosting events that would keep customers occupied. All growth came to a halt -- at least while I was still on the staff. Thus, to keep customers satisfied, the staff had to try to keep them occupied with events. But with only 7 staff members and the severe cut-back in our hours along with insufficient support, this was not easy to do. To add to all that, the remote staff supervisor who'd been with us since CC's birth quit in mid-March, primarily because not even he could get the kind of support that he needed to support his staff. The one last thing he was able to do for us was to get us the QCC titles so that we could be distinguished from non-staff Avatars. But as he told me later, he had to fight tooth and nail for even that. He was ultimately replaced by a staff person from a "competing" game on Q, who continued to work in the competing game and who offered even less support to the remaining staff than we'd had between January and March. I could see the writing on the wall. It was July, 1991 that I finally turned in my feather; I could no longer handle the stress and pain of watching CC in the throes of death -- something I'd worked so hard to help build and was trying so hard to keep alive . Shortly after I quit, a couple others who'd been on the staff from the birth of CC left as well. That CC hung on to life from early 1991 until early 1994 I attribute to the dedication of the remaining few staff members and the Acolytes who loved it too much to leave. They literally had to be cast out of the Island before they'd give up. Carolann said it well when she said: "The best way not to let WA go the way of Caribe is to stick by your product. Try to keep new ideas and new blood filtering in by adding new staff as much as possible. If you do decide in the distant future to let it drop, kill it fast and don't let it dwindle down to 1 person per night and decide you finally have had enough." I am VERY glad that WorldsAway is on CIS and not AOL. I like the sound of your message and the kind of support that will be available. I like the fact that you WANT to hear from us, get our ideas and opinions and will act on them to the best of your ability. If the WA team continues to have that same attitude, I doubt very much that WA will go the way of CC. As for the sound of my messages being "a philosophic and visionary falling-out with Club Caribe", I get emotional on the subject because Caribe was a ::major:: part of my life during my time on the staff. It wasn't unusual for me to devote 150 online and offline hours a month to it on top of working a full time job. It was the most gratifying, the most intense self-growth period, the most challenging period of my entire life. I discovered in myself things I never knew I was capable of. I put a lot of myself into Caribe. For the staff (and me) to have been treated as we were devastated me. It took me a good year to recover from the loss, even though my quitting was my decision. Yet, even today, there is still a touch of that old pain whenever I think of CC -- it meant so much to me to be a part of that thriving community. As for that particular aspect of the demise of CC, I would say that the WorldsAway team needs to be sensitive to the Acolytes -- to realize that these remote staffers are essentially volunteers and that they wouldn't do it unless they loved the environment they were in, were willing to dedicate themselves to its growth, were willing to challenge their creativity to aid in the development the WA environment, to devote the kind of time required to do all this. They need the support of inhouse staff in order to meet the needs of the customers, because the Acolytes will be the ones dealing with customers on a day-to-day basis. They need strong and fair leadership, positive motivation and need to know that their efforts are appreciated, that their ideas and thoughts (and problems) won't go ignored. If the staff feels appreciated and is recognized for their efforts, they will become more motivated, more dedicated and more creative, thus helping to keep more customers satisfied. And that, really, is the ultimate goal. Even though we are now preparing ourselves to enter a bigger, better and brighter environment than CC ever was, I still believe that QLink's management never really fully understood just what they unleashed when they opened up Caribe -- it had phenomenal potential -- and we were not able to achieve even half of what it could have been -- even if they would never have released a Version 2, it still had tremendous potential. They should they advertised it more -- they should have supported it better -- they should have treated their customers and remote staffers better. It probably would have died anyway as the C64 fell by the wayside to PCs. Although, if CC had been better supported and allowed to continue to explore its potential, I truly believe that CC lovers would have hung on to their C64s or 128s simply for the CC experience. The CC part of AOL/QLink could still be thriving, and not be the economic drain it became at its end. Well, it wasn't as succinct as I would have liked, but you asked! ;) Lee
Subj: CC's long painful death Section: Island Caribe To: Lee Abraham, xxxxx,xxx Sunday, May 14, 1995 9:33:04 AM From: Halthron/Cntrstrike, xxxxx,xxxx #4307 Lee, So true! I agree that Eric would have had a bigger struggle to get me to a PC if it hadn't been for the loss of Caribe. I needed to fill the void caused by the loss of my friends so I got the PC. The fact that QLink never supported Amiga users should have been a big indication that they never intended to keep QLink as a longterm investment. I went to the World of Commodore Expo and QLink party back in 1989 and most of that was devoted to the Amiga. Yet, QLink maintained their NO AMIGA stand. Such a waste! Carolann/Cntrstrike/CCH Kitty
Subj: CC's long painful death Section: Island Caribe To: Hunter Brown /Sysop, xxxxx,xxxx Sunday, May 14, 1995 11:52:22 AM From: Lee Abraham, xxxxx,xxx #4317 My previous post in answer to your question was written in the wee hours of the morning. In rereading it in the light of day, I noticed a glaring error which I would like to correct. I wrote: "That CC hung on to life from early 1991 until early 1994 I attribute to the dedication of the remaining few staff members and the Acolytes who loved it too much to leave. They literally had to be cast out of the Island before they'd give up." I ::meant:: to say that I attribute CC's continued existence in that three-year period to the staff members and the "Avatars" who loved it too much to leave. Also, since getting up this morning and while doing some household chores, I've been thinking about just exactly WHAT Quantum unleashed when it opened Caribe. Everywhere in this forum people have been trying to figure out if WA is a game and we former CC'ers have tried to respond to this by saying it is not. We've tried in a variety of ways to explain why we felt this way; but somehow, I don't think we really got to the heart and soul of WHY we say that. I'm going to try to express just what I think it was that they unleashed and perhaps in doing that, out of it will come a better answer to your question: "What can we do now to prevent WA from going the way of CC?" (paraphrased, but in essence what you asked). Nancy came close to expressing what I'm about to relate. In a previous post, she referred to Whizzie's Bookstore. Nancy is a booklover, a writer, among other things. CC provided her an environment in which to run a bookstore, be a publisher, edit/write the weekly newspaper -- things that she couldn't do in the "real world". Q's management considered CC a "game" and that is where they made their first mistake. They failed to really understand that Randy Farmer and Chip Morningstar had created a world. It was a brand new world, waiting for customers to populate it and turn it into a thriving community. Customers who in real life would never have the opportunity to own their own businesses, set up their own religions, etc. were now provided an environment in which to do this. We did not inherit a political system or society. Rather, we created our own from scratch. We in essence built our own world based on what WE wanted to see in it. We dealt with the flim-flam of our community in a way we believed to be fair to all. And I use the word "we" to include everyone who was a part of CC, not merely staff. Yet, through it all up to its end, Q's management persisted in viewing CC as nothing more than a game which ::should:: be self-supportive. By this I mean, they forgot that users could not create items, could not build new buidings, new areas to explore, etc. Because CC was not an objective-oriented game (such as many of the multi-player fantasy role playing games -- or even Q's own casino for that matter which ::could:: be played all alone), it required the support of inhouse technical staff to create the tools the inhabitants needed to keep it a thriving, growing community. They never saw that what they unleashed was a world that WE created ourselves. The technical nuts and bolts of it were there for us but we BUILT it up from nuts and bolts to a social community -- not based on what politicians, religious leaders, etc. wanted for us, but on what we wanted for ourselves. And in a real world that is in the chaos it is, retreating to that which we created for ourselves was our "salvation" (for lack of a better word). It gave us a feeling of control over our lives, a feeling that we ::could:: make a difference in that world, and we were able to take that outside the world we had created and into the real world. I think every CCer who was a serious devotee could say, if they really thought about it, that CC made them better persons in real life. For me, it not only did that, but it also actually changed the way I viewed myself and by doing that, it changed the course of my life. For that, I will be eternally grateful to Randy, Chip and QLink for providing the kind of environment which allowed me to grow in ways I never thought possible. WorldsAway has an even greater scope than CC ever did. It is on a network that is international. Just imagine what we will create for ourselves! The mixture of the political systems under which we live, the religious beliefs of people everywhere in the world -- oh, it gives me shivers of excitement just thinking about the kind of community we will be building from scratch -- what Randy, Chip and Fujitsu are handing us -- an even greater opportunity to build a world that we can be truly proud of. Our activities in the Dreamscape can and ::will:: carry over to our "real world". So, to sum this up, I would challenge Fujitsu and the WorldsAway team to never forget that WA is not a game in the way we have come to view games -- to understand that it is a living, breathing community which gives users the opportunity to do things or express themselves in ways that they may never be able to do in the "real world". Yet, by providing this kind of atmosphere, it gives people the courage to give their real life dreams more serious consideration and to make a more honest effort to achieve them. It will give people the self-knowledge that they CAN make a difference, no matter how "small" it may seem to be. And from that self-knowledge will come a greater sense of self-esteem, which in turn leads to a better world for all of us. That may not be the objective that Fujitsu and the WorldsAway team has in mind, but it is a very real byproduct of the environment they are providing to users from all over the world. And on that note, I think I'll shut up now. ;) Lee
Subj: CC's long painful death Section: Island Caribe To: Halthron/Cntrstrike, xxxxx,xxxx Sunday, May 14, 1995 1:48:20 PM From: Lee Abraham, xxxxx,xxx #4329 Yep, a :real: waste. And yet ... just look at what has happened! We've got a whole new world to build and to explore, with a company which is sincerely interested in their product and in us. I, for one, think the Q (AOL) management is gonna be sorry that they didn't realize what they had. ;) Lee
Subj: CC's long painful death Section: Island Caribe To: Lee Abraham, xxxxx,xxx Sunday, May 14, 1995 5:18:09 PM From: Sabertooth, xxxxx,xxxx #4354 Lee, I WAS surprised to see this(WA) here when AOL had the inside track with Club Caribe. I think you're right though. They couldn't see the forest through the trees so to speak. I'm glad to see CIS involved here. CIS has such a worldwde presense that you don't find anywhere else. Should make for a really interesting place, indeed. I, for one, will be happy to just have a new home. I'm glad cyberspace worlds like Club Caribe and WA exist at all. It has been many years since Lucasfilm's Habitat was first created, they've sure taken their time getting here. ;-D I'm sorry things soured for you with Club Caribe. In much the same way it was the same for me but in another area. I have only fond memories of Club Caribe. At the time I left, you could tell things were going south for Q. Especially as was said, when they failed to support the Amiga, at the time the only upgrade path for Commodore 64/128 users. The stupidity of Commodore International...now that's a topic for another thread. Talk about blowing it. Sabertooth (who doesn't mind long posts when they're so interesting) 76645,3012
Subj: CC's long painful death Section: Island Caribe To: Lee Abraham, xxxxx,xxx Sunday, May 14, 1995 8:31:17 PM From: Halthron/Cntrstrike, xxxxx,xxxx #4376 Lee, I agree with that!!! It is very much a world that is SOOO much more than a game. Hunter, Many of the friendships that were built in Caribe are lasting through the trials of time. Eric and I met in Caribe, got married in Caribe and later on got married in real life. Our daughter, Lee Ann is named after a good friend that we both made in Caribe. <Gee, I wonder who that is ;D> Caribe became more than a game...it was a meeting place and a lifestyle. If WA can accomplish that (which it is well on it's way already) then it achieves so much more. When I first started becoming friends with Eric, I was criticized by people that worked with me. They thought that I was naive to think that a friendship with a person living on the other side of the country and having a "computer game" as our only connection would last. They told me to drop him since I couldn't know him well enough. What made them angry was my refusal since I knew Eric much better than some guy I would met in a singles club. We talked, did events together and became friends. That is why it was hard to see Caribe die since it was so paramount to our early relationship. I still miss many of the old places and events but I am looking forward to seeing what the new "world" will bring. Carolann/Cntrstrike/CCH Kitty
Subj: CC's long painful death Section: Island Caribe To: Sabertooth, xxxxx,xxxx Sunday, May 14, 1995 11:07:03 PM From: Lee Abraham, xxxxx,xxx #4397 Ah, Sabertooth - Caribe may have gone sour for me, but I have a million or so wonderful memories :) Even after I quit the staff, I did visit now and then and didn't finally cancel my Q account until some time in late 92 I think it was. By that time, I had my PC and was ready to cut the cord to my first online experience. I made many wonderful friends during my time on Q and three have become offline friends I hope to have for the rest of my life. Yeah, they blew it -- Commodore International blew it -- ah well, if they hadn't have blown it, we probably wouldn't all be here now, would we? <grin> Lee :)
Subj: CC's long painful death Section: Island Caribe
To: Lee Abraham, xxxxx,xxx Monday, May 15, 1995 6:46:12 PM
From: Nanzzie, xxxxx,xxx #4449
You know how often people would ask me when I was going to get a ::real:: computer?
Finally giving in and switching from an Amiga to a PC was a real wrench ... even the
'lowly' Commodore 64 was built with graphics and sound integral to the design ... which
made it a perfect platform for Habitat (at a time when PC's couldn't do much more than *
beep * at its users); I can only drool to think of what could have been done with Habitat
technology on the Amiga.
Of course, I expect WA for the PC and the MAC to be nothing short of ::great:: ... but
with all those differing configurations out there ... I wouldn't want to be the software
engineer trying to make everything work perfectly together. (Which is why I admire the
s/w folk who DO manage the job!)
But this is drifting further and further off the thread ...
... so let me just add that I think you said it all, Lee, and spoke True, as you always
do ...
If I were to add another 2 tokens' worth ... it would just be to say that WA no doubt will
be, as CC was, like a live creature ... leave it out in the cold without food and water and it
will die (and no amount of hasty resusitation will revive it) ... but give it nourishment,
encouragement, and the wherewithal to try new things ... and it will grow and flourish,
likely beyond all expectations.
-- Nance
1996
August
Unity Souvenir Vendo
COMMENT: Unity Day on Saturday, August 10, was enjoyed by many avatars (power
outage and server downtime notwithstanding), but was panned by many avatars as
well.
#: 121020 S3/In-World Events (CIS:AWAYFO)
11-Aug-96 17:20:06
Sb: Unity Souvenir Vendo
Fm: SNO II xxxxxx,xxxx
To: all
Survey...
How many think that 'Nillabean and Starchild Moonshadow helped at the vendo? and
how many are still crosseyed frustrated because they kept telling others to buy
and leave, but stayed and stayed?
Even with my 133mhz system I couldn't get down after 2 hours of trying... and
all SM could do was insult me then block ESP...
just curious if I was the only unhappy ghost? I know of 2 other angry ones, but
I will let them speak for themselves
SNO II
#: 122359 S3/In-World Events (CIS:AWAYFO)
14-Aug-96 16:59:27
Sb: Unity Souvenir Vendo
Fm: WhiteRose,Asst.SysOp xxxxxx,xxxx
To: MarvL 75612,3562
>>Then they should have handed them out, or JUST used the vendo in the KOTTO
turf. Placing it out in a public area, with a stated time limit, just created
panic and exacerbated the fiasco.<<
I think the intent was to kep the vendo in the turf, and for it NOT to be in
Meditiation Park, BUT due to the fact that the server was going to go down due
to a power outage, and 40 something ghosts were STILL waiting to get down, Uni
had to do something.
I really enjoyed the event. I do look forward to more events like this coming
soon.
White Rose
Where are the Acolytes?
COMMENT: The dearth of Acolytes available during European "prime time" is noted
by an New Yorker now living in England.
#: 121258 S3/In-World Events (CIS:AWAYFO)
12-Aug-96 12:56:02
Sb: Where are the Acolytes?
Fm: Swiftess xxxxxx,xxxx
To: All
Replies: 3 TID: 27194 Par: 0 Chd: 121288 Sib: 0
Ok, ok, what comes around goes around.
When I lived in NYC, I thought that the people in Europe whined too much about
the lack of Acolytes during their times.
Now I live in London, hanging my head in shame, cos THEY WERE RIGHT.
Cant find an acolyte to save my life. I know SO MANY good people who would make
EXCELLENT Acolytes. (And wouldnt charge for prizes. . .)
Can someone tell me how to nominate someone, or ask, request? ANYTHING!!!!!!
Swiftess
1997
April
Message #199483 in the Dreamscape Topics Section:
Dear Dreamscape Citizens, Thank you for your feedback and suggestions regarding the current token inflation situation. At this time, we have not been able to isolate the origin of this disruption in our service. We are still investigating the situation to determine the cause and prevent it from happening again. At this time, we do have a plan to reduce the sheer number of tokens in the Dreamscape. We have decided against any sweeping changes in the database because the token economy is only one layer to Dreamscape. Rolling back the database to a previous date will effectively reduce the number of tokens in the economy, but it will distrupt the lives of too many customers in the process--especially anyone who created a new avatar. Logging in to find that they no longer exist is not much of a welcome. Rolling back the database may temporarily solve the token problem, but the fact is, life in Dreamscape continues on and inconveniencing the greater part of our population in order to attempt a solution does not seem to be the wisest choice. After reviewing the information we have available, we have decided to pursue recovering the tokens on an indivudual basis. We are in or will be in contact with individuals with abnormal amounts of tokens in their possession in an effort to remove those tokens. We greatly appreciate the efforts the community has given in order to solve this problem, and we ask that you continue to support the world through those efforts. We understand that not everyone favored this particular method of handling the situation and we assure those who do enjoy the economic aspects of the Dreamscape that we will make every effort to have as little impact on your enjoyment as possible. In the larger picture, this will become a part of the Dreamscape history which will provide entertainment and lessons for many. Sincerely, Oracle Vaserius Oracle Uni Oracle Teresias
May
Dear Dreamscape Citizens, It's been almost a month since our last letter regarding the token problems in the Dreamscape. We regret that schedules and conversion work has not allowed us to address this issue in a timely manner. First, let me acknowledge that we were able to determine that the sudden inflation of tokens was due to an error in calculating avatar time. We are still investigating all the conditions which would generate the error and working to prevent this from happening again. The good news is that since April 28th, no new incidents have Occurred. The T1 is as stable as it has been for the past year, albeit elevated. This brings me to the second point. During the height of the problems, the T1 rose to a high of 660 million tokens instead of the more normal 15 million tokens. To date, 630 million tokens were turned in through volunteer effort alone which brings the T1 down to 32 Million tokens. This amazing effort is a credit to everyone who helped out. When we announced that the Oracles would handle the situation as it was presented, there was positive and negative reactions regarding the choice in handling the recovery of the tokens. There are still some more tokens to return the economy to it's original status and, though we may not achieve an exact return, we will be able to come close largely through the personal efforts of many of you. Regardless of any particular opinion of the solution, those who voice an opinion did so because they care about the Dreamscape and their fellow citizens. To mark the occasion of the massive volunteer effort put out by all of you and to honor every person who has taken action to help out another, the Oracles have planned a monument for the city of Phantasus. On Sunday, May 25th at Noon WAT, gather at the Pawn Machine at the corner of Temple and Gnarled Oak Streets where there will be a new link to have your first look at a monument dedicated to the people of Phantasus. It is as yet unnamed and the Acolytes and Forum Staff will be handling a naming contest so you, the people, can have a direct influence on the monument. More details on the naming contest will be announced on Sunday and here in the forum. We are planning some additional suprises at that time. We look forward to seeing you there. Sincerely, Oracle Teresias Oracle Vaserius Oracle Uni