View source for WorldsAway Committee Meeting - October 22nd, 1995

I'm not sure of the context of this meeting, but Oracle Teresias (represented here as Bob Jones) mentions at the end of the transcript that this was a committee of avatars that were brought together to discuss things. It's worth noting that not everyone here is an Acolyte and so it seems to be concerned members wishing to talk with Teresias to get answers.

 <pre>********** 10/22/95 9:49 AM  Forum CO
*SYSTEM*             | Bob Jones has entered the group.
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Hi, Angel, Marv, Teresias!
GG in meeting        | Hiya all :) (F6)
*SYSTEM*             | Zippy has entered the group.
Elwing <busy>        | Hi, all :-)
Zippy                | Hi all!!!!
Angel Gambler<busy>  | Hiya, Teresias!  :)
                     | Hiya, y'all!
Bob Jones            | Greetings!
                     | Please excuse me for just one moment. BRB.
Eärendil <BUSY>      | We only missing Indigo?
Elwing <busy>        | Just waiting on Indi, I guess
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Haven't heard from her in a couple days...anyone 
                     | else?
Angel Gambler<busy>  | Haven't been around for a couple days...
Zippy                | I saw her Thursday....been offline basically ever 
                     | since :(
GG in meeting        | there was a message for you Eärendil ... she'll be 
                     | late ...
Zippy                | ...camping in woods
Eärendil <BUSY>      | How was the campout, Zippy?
GG in meeting        | bout 10 or 15 min
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Ohh...okay..
Zippy                | Ear....WET
Eärendil <BUSY>      | That's right...I *do* have waiting messages :)
Elwing <busy>        | Oh.. do we wait or proceed when Terrasias 
                     | is ready..
Zippy                | It poured the whole time <G>
Eärendil <BUSY>      | LOL, Zip...
Angel Gambler<busy>  | I'm kinda sad...I went up to Duluth yesterday and it 
                     | was *snowing*.  :(((
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Well, it's snowing in the Black Hills this morning..
Elwing <busy>        | Ohh .. right, Zippy .. we had a LOT of 
                     | rain..
Zippy                | Angel.....ACK!!!!
Angel Gambler<busy>  | Zippy, consider yourself lucky.  <g>
Zippy                | Angel....I would have rathered snow
GG in meeting        | well, i was at a birthday party and the average in 
                     | age was 68 <g>
Angel Gambler<busy>  | You wouldn't if you've lived in Minnesota all your 
                     | life, Zip.  <g>
Elwing <busy>        | Guess you felt very comfortable then, GG 
                     | <g>
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Yeah, but what was the average Temperature, GG?
                     | EL!!
MarvL <busy>         | I won't be in world for a few days. I looks like my 
                     | laptop is having power supply 
                     | problems. All sort of flaky symptoms.   So I'm 
                     | running on a 386SX and a 2400 bps 
                     | modem that I dug out of the closet.    Spent HOURS 
                     | fighting with it before I figured out 
                     | the the serial printer port was contenting for COM2. 
                     |  So my modem is running on COM4 
                     | for crying out loud.  
Zippy                | Angel....the tent flooded <G>
Angel Gambler<busy>  | LOL, El!
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Yikes, Marv...
Zippy                | Angel...snow would have stayed out <G> of my 
                     | sleeping bag
GG in meeting        | LOL Elwing .. i was more worried that one or two 
                     | guests might die 
                     | during the party <g>
Angel Gambler<busy>  | LOL!
Elwing <busy>        | computers!  Damned if they do and damned 
                     | if they don't
                     | lol, GG..
Zippy                | Marv....oh!!!!!   Hugs!!!
Angel Gambler<busy>  | Geez, Marv....don't get me depressed or anything... 
                     | <bg>
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Elwing...that's GermanGiant... NOT GermanGeriatric!
Angel Gambler<busy>  | ROFL!!
Elwing <busy>        | Oh... checking my address book --- 
                     | but....
GG in meeting        | ROFL!!!!
MarvL <busy>         | I thought GG was  Gute Genug
Eärendil <BUSY>      | BRB...going to check msgs real quick
GG in meeting        | LOL MarvL!
Elwing <busy>        | Gute Genug?
Angel Gambler<busy>  | You lost me there, Marv.  <g>
Elwing <busy>        | I think I'm going to get a german 
                     | translator..
GG in meeting        | Its more "Great Guy" <g>
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Here's Indi...
GG in meeting        | Gut genug = good enough
MarvL <busy>         | Good  Enough      <but just barely>
Elwing <busy>        | Oh, WOW!
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Or not...
Elwing <busy>        | I don't see her..
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Not sure it WAS her...did a name change...
*SYSTEM*             | Zippy has left the group.
Angel Gambler<busy>  | There goes Zippy....again...
Elwing <busy>        | Oh .. we are doing fine..
Eärendil <BUSY>      | There goes zippy again...
Elwing <busy>        | Poor Zippy
Angel Gambler<busy>  | Sheesh...did Teresias fall in or something?  <vvvbg>
GG in meeting        | Dont worry .. ducks can fly when falling down the 
                     | cliffs
Eärendil <BUSY>      | LOL, Angel...
Bob Jones            | Eh-HEM! <G>
Angel Gambler<busy>  | Kidding!  Just kidding!  <g>
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Hehehe...I think he was just waiting for that...
Angel Gambler<busy>  | <blush>
Bob Jones            | I know!
*SYSTEM*             | Zippy has entered the group.
GG in meeting        | LOL
Zippy                | Whew...got bounced out of here <G>
Bob Jones            | Me?  A Sneak?
Zippy                | Rehi's All!!!!
Angel Gambler<busy>  | Hugsssss, Zippy!
GG in meeting        | Re's Zippy :) And hiya to all those who havent been 
                     | greeted yet :)
Elwing <busy>        | <fastening a lasso around Zippy>
GG in meeting        | Indi is here too
Angel Gambler<busy>  | I hope that'll hold her, El. :)
Zippy                | Just tried inviting Indi in
Elwing <busy>        | Cant seem to get her in here.
Zippy                | Elwing...thanks!!!
Elwing <busy>        | tried 4 times already
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Somebody else want to try to invite Indi?
MarvL <busy>         | Probably has here flags turned off.
Zippy                | I've tried too
MarvL <busy>         | her
Zippy                | I just asked her to turn invite on
Eärendil <BUSY>      | She just told me they're on...
Elwing <busy>        | tried again..
Bob Jones            | She probably has six "talk" windows up right now.
Eärendil <BUSY>      | LOL...and that gawdawful beeping driving her nuts...
Angel Gambler<busy>  | I'm avoiding paging her for that reason.  :)
Zippy                | Maybe she'll have to invite all of us??? <shrug>
*SYSTEM*             | Indigo <Busy/> has entered the group.
Angel Gambler<busy>  | Yay!  :D
GG in meeting        | Hiya Indi :)
Elwing <busy>        | Indigo!!!  :-)
Zippy                | Yipppeeeeeeee!!!!!  Hugssssssssssssss Indi!!
Indigo <Busy/>       | Hello!!!!
Elwing <busy>        | [[[HUGS]]]
Angel Gambler<busy>  | Huugggsssss, Indi!!
Indigo <Busy/>       | Hhhhuuuuuugggggggggggggsssssssss!!
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Ahhh....here she is! [[[Indigo]]] :->
Indigo <Busy/>       | Ear, did you get my message?
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Yes...about 2 minutes before you got here :-)
Indigo <Busy/>       | Oh, so sorry....
Elwing <busy>        | GG passed it on to us earlier, Indi..
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Okay...I have 10:15 am WAT; logging is ON, and all 
                     | members 
                     | are present as well as Oracle Teresias.
Elwing <busy>        | so we knew you were delayed..
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Therefore, I call the meeting to order.
Indigo <Busy/>       | Thank you.
Eärendil <BUSY>      | As Teresias' time is limited (I would imagine), I'll 
                     | ask him to go 
                     | ahead, and depending how long we're here, we'll 
                     | address any 
                     | other matters later on, or via email.
MarvL <busy>         | Everyone should consider turning off their invite 
                     | flags.
Indigo <Busy/>       | Just for the record, I am under no time constraints 
                     | as I extended my vaca
Bob Jones            | Thank you, Eärendil.  
                     | I will attempt to be brief.
                     | There are several reasons I wished to speak to you 
                     | all today.
                     | Ensuring open dilalogue was foremost, but I also 
                     | wanted to make sure 
                     | some general misconceptions were cleared up.
                     | The two most important of these are the differences 
                     | bewteen CIS and FCT 
                     | (Fujitsu Cultural Technologies).
                     | and an outline of FCTs support structure.
                     | I also wanted to touch on some social norms we have 
                     | identified which may 
                     | help in some of the formation of your guidelines.
                     | First, the differences between CIS and FCT:
                     | FCT and CIS are separate entities where FCT has 
                     | entered under a deal 
                     | with CIS to use their service for access and billing.
                     | FCT is self-governing on CIS in our Marketing plans 
                     | and the way the forum 
                     | is structured.
                     | Obviously, some of this is regulated by CIS as any 
                     | other company would be 
                     | regulated.
                     | The servers on which the WA service runs are owned, 
                     | operated and 
                     | controlled soley by FCT.
                     | In this way, CIS serves as a gateway to the FCT 
                     | servers.
                     | There are some results which arise out of this 
                     | situation.
                     | Mainly, that CIS Terms of Service (ToS) may not 
                     | properly apply in all cases 
                     | to the nature of our service.
                     | If any of you have obtained CIS ToS, I will refer to 
                     | specific examples.  If not, I 
                     | would suggest you all get copies (if you can find 
                     | them <g>).  Also, look for 
                     | the Operating Rules as they also count in my book as 
                     | ToS.
                     | Examples where CIS ToS don't quite fit our service:
                     | Racism - As far as real world racism is concerned, 
                     | we have no intention of 
                     | allowing that within the world.
                     | However, we are unique in that we can have "races" 
                     | which don't exist.  
                     | Purple skinned dog-heads: at what point does CIS ToS 
                     | racism rules apply?
                     | Similar arguments can be seen with sexism and bias 
                     | against religions 
                     | mainly because of the potential to create fictional 
                     | one.
                     | (I see the guidelines as being able to fill in those 
                     | holes mainly because they 
                     |  are not rules per se.)
                     | Because CIS ToS do not fit perfectly in our service, 
                     | does not mean we will 
                     | ignore them.
                     | It also means we can't adopt them wholesale.
                     | It's a fine line, but the Oracles pay respect to 
                     | them and only in a few 
                     | instances will we look as though we are not fully 
                     | supporting them.
                     | In those cases, we usually have a reason.  
                     | For the future, FCT is lookinginto ToS which are 
                     | more applicible to the more 
                     | unique aspects of our service. 
                     | I think that covers the major points there.  Now I 
                     | would like to further refine 
                     | the idea of support by explaining the FCT support 
                     | structure.
                     | Support is broken down into two separate aspects: 
                     | in-world and out-world.
                     | (Just to confuse things) Out-world generally means 
                     | the WA Forum, WA EMP 
                     | and any conferences held.
                     | They consist of Rena, Mary, Hunter and and [Helper]s 
                     | they may wish to take 
                     | on.
                     | (Please note: Teresias, Uni and Vaserius are none of 
                     | these people.)
*SYSTEM*             | Angel Gambler<busy> has left the group.
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Angel may have gotten an inactivity disconnect; 
                     | suggest 
                     | everyone send a character to the screen to update 
                     | that timer.
Zippy                | <G>
*SYSTEM*             | Angel Gambler<busy> has entered the group.
Angel Gambler<busy>  | Sorry!  Got booted!
Indigo <Busy/>       | <GBG>
Zippy                | Welcome back :-)
Angel Gambler<busy>  | Ugh...I supposed I missed something important, too...
                     | :D
Elwing <busy>        | nope
                     | we waited for you
                     | :-)
Angel Gambler<busy>  | Thanks!!  :) :) :)
Bob Jones            | Member Support maintains the forum, who is allowed 
                     | on the forum, the 
                     | downloading, installation and technical support of 
                     | the client software.
MarvL <busy>         | x
Bob Jones            | Basically, anything prior to a customer hitting the 
                     | button to enter the world.
                     | In-world is the domain of the Oracles, Acolytes and 
                     | avatars themselves.
                     | In the broadest terms, the Oracles provide an in 
                     | world, in character version 
                     | of Customer Support.
                     | But ask any of the Acolytes and they will tell you 
                     | that breaking it down into 
                     | specifics is not easy and covers areas outside the 
                     | normal thinking of 
                     | Customer Service.
                     | We are also the holders of the vision of building a 
                     | viable, (somewhat) 
                     | self-regulating community as part of the service.
                     | The Oracles, through teaching and experience feel 
                     | they understand many of 
                     | the broader aspects of community building.
                     | By having a knowledge of the way communities form, 
                     | grow, regulate and 
                     | even die.  We use some of this knowledge to our 
                     | advantage.
                     | This brings me to my last topic covering some of 
                     | these ideas.
                     | One of the most influential ideas the Oracles have 
                     | adopted is not one of 
                     | community, but one more of nature in general: 
                     | conflict.
                     | As applies to humans, we tend to avoid conflict in 
                     | any way we can.
                     | The more we avoid it, however, the harder it becomes 
                     | to deal with at a later 
                     | time.
                     | For those in the US, Apr 15 (tax day) is a high 
                     | stress time, because many 
                     | avoided the conflicts involved in working out their 
                     | financial records 
                     | throughout the year.
                     | Simply one of many examples, it also applies to 
                     | person-to-person 
                     | interaction.
                     | The Oracles view conflict, not as something to be 
                     | avoided, but somethign to 
                     | be embraced as an opportunity to change and grow.
                     | Another example is the formation of this committee.  
                     | Out of several conflicts which have occured during 
                     | the opening of WA, there 
                     | are those who saw that by facing those conflicts, 
                     | they had an opportunity to 
                     | offer the community within the service something of 
                     | value.
                     | I strongly feel that without the conflicts, large 
                     | and small, which have occured 
                     | in the past two months, the service and community we 
                     | see today would not 
                     | be nearly so mature.
                     | So with this in mind, let me touch on two social 
                     | views which we tend to hold 
                     | as true (until we are proven otherwise).
                     | There are many others, and I am not attempting to 
                     | discredit them by not 
                     | including them now.  It's mainly for time and that 
                     | this is a topic worthy of 
                     | several books.
                     | On view of social growth can be coined Social 
                     | Darwinism (my apologies to 
                     | those who may feel that is over simplifying things).
                     | In the view of "survival of the fittest"; fitness 
                     | does not equate strength.
                     | Rather, that which is deemed "fit", it that which 
                     | allows the society to 
                     | continue.
                     | This allows for adaptation of customs, language, 
                     | rites, taboos (all written or 
                     | unwritten) which maybe radically different than 
                     | current norms, but face the 
                     | same test:  if they do not allow the society to 
                     | adapt to changes in 
                     | environment (other people, economy, etc.), they will 
                     | be dropped from that 
                     | society's culture.
                     | I view these initial months as our major shake-down.
                     | But, actions such as this committtee, point toward a 
                     | refinement of the 
                     | culture we will be creating here.
                     | (pretend there is a eloquent sequey here)
                     | (but spelled properly)
                     | One last aspect, I am coming to learn more and more 
                     | of is thenature of 
                     | people to NOT appeal to authority when conflict 
                     | arises.
                     | As I am being handy with examples, those in the US 
                     | (and maybe outside) 
                     | will be familiar with the furor over the OJ Simpson 
                     | verdict.
                     | Despite the legal action acquitting Mr. Simpson, 
                     | many ignore it and 
                     | ostrasize or even publicly denounce Simpson.
                     | I amnot going to entertain all the whys, but point 
                     | out simply, that because a 
                     | legal action is made, not everyone will be willing 
                     | to abide by it.
                     | As with actions handed down by courts, people may 
                     | not appeal to laws 
                     | which already exist.
                     | Most notably in rural areas, residents may have a 
                     | conflict which is 
                     | specifically governed by a local or federal law.
                     | Regardless, they may completely ignore such laws and 
                     | resolve the matter 
                     | on their own terms.
                     | In general, when people come into conflict and they 
                     | see no long-term future 
                     | relationship, that is when they will appeal to legal 
                     | or political action.
*SYSTEM*             | GG in meeting has left the group.
Bob Jones            | Until that time, they will tend to attempt to work 
                     | it out on their own or accept 
                     | third party mediation help.
                     | I think it's time for a keystoke.
*SYSTEM*             | GG in meeting has entered the group.
MarvL <busy>         | x
GG in meeting        | Whew ...
Indigo <Busy/>       | <s>
GG in meeting        | sorry
Zippy <busy>         | <g>
GG in meeting        | did i miss anything after "....political action"?
Bob Jones            | (repeat for GG)  Until that time, they will tend to 
                     | attempt to work it out on their 
                     | own or accept third party mediation help.
GG in meeting        | thanks!
Bob Jones            | With some education, by simply being concious of 
                     | this idea and spreading 
                     | it through action or word, others may start to 
                     | realize this and see people 
                     | such as Rob33 in a more long term aspect.
                     | Acceptance and assimilation, we feel, are key to 
                     | ensuring that a community 
                     | does grow here.  
                     | It may not be neatly controlled, but we also 
                     | consider that part of the fun.
                     | This committee is playing an important role in the 
                     | key I mentioned 
                     | previously.
                     | I hope this has helped with some of the work you are 
                     | doing and I offer any 
                     | assistance or guidance I or the other Oracles can 
                     | give in meeting your 
                     | goals.
                     | I am through with my part, I will hand the floor 
                     | back to Eärendil to proceed 
                     | with the question segment.
MarvL <busy>         | >
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Before opening the meeting up to questions the 
                     | others have, do 
                     | you mind if I upload your comments to the forum, or 
                     | would you 
                     | prefer that we keep this among ourselves?
Bob Jones            | That is a tough call.
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Then I'll make it easy on you, and just keep it 
                     | among us. :-)
Bob Jones            | On one hand we would like to educate others through 
                     | example (our 
                     | preference) rather than through doctrine and 
                     | teachings.
                     | I would prefer that for now. Thank you.
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Understandable...
                     | Okay, Marv...ga/
GG in meeting        | >
MarvL <busy>         | One of the question has been that of baseline 
                     | populace. Does FCT possess the 
                     | technical mean to determine the number of unique 
                     | avatars that are active in a 
                     | particular calendar week. Or routinely track the 
                     | activity level in each calendar 
                     | week.  GA.
Bob Jones            | The regular Bob Jones passed your letter to me, I 
                     | regret I have not had time 
                     | to answer it with 1.0 and Haloween looming.  The 
                     | answer is yes, we have 
                     | the means to derive these numbers.  The trick is, 
                     | that I am not sure that we 
                     | can release these numbers outside of FCT.  I am sure 
                     | they will be 
                     | publicly available in the future.
                     | <done>
Eärendil <BUSY>      | GG, ga
GG in meeting        | I mostly agree with Teresias and appreciate that 
                     | there will be different 
                     | or additional ToS to the ones CIS has. IMHO he has 
                     | made a little 
                     | mistake in his concept of self-regulation though. 
                     | Environments which 
                     | regulate such problems without any public authority 
                     | have very power- 
                     | (and hurt-)ful ways of dealing with troublemakers. 
                     | The consequence is 
                     | the regulation ... as long as offenders can go on 
                     | with their actions since 
                     | many dont care for educational words. If there are 
                     | no serious reactions 
                     | even worse systems can grow up. (Mafia in Sicily may 
                     | not be the best 
                     | example but it might help explaining what i mean). 
                     | This guidelines 
                     | followed by reasoning only wont be of much help IMO 
                     | and if the 
                     | Oracles dont want to interfere too much into social 
                     | conflicts i'd like to 
                     | see more power in the hands of the populace. Its 
                     | easy to say "We dont 
                     | want to deal with it but you are not given any 
                     | power" ... too easy for my 
                     | understanding. Notice: i dont want mass cancelling 
                     | of accounts, i'd 
                     | prefer inworld adapted consequences (after reasoning 
                     | wasnt 
                     | successful) GA
                     | (hope i havent dumped Teresias now)
Bob Jones            | I may have not made myself understood as I desired.  
                     | I stated that we were 
                     | aiming to achieve a somewhat self-regulating 
                     | comminuty.
                     | We are not backing off, saying that we don't want to 
                     | deal with it; rather that 
                     | we want to be able to helpteach others to be able to 
                     | deal with it in a 
                     | community-positive way.
                     | We look as though we are taking a hands-off stance,, 
                     | because we know that 
                     | we cannot be central planners.
                     | That does not mean we do not care about this 
                     | service, world, community.
                     | It means we will not march jack-booted through the 
                     | streets, nor allow 
                     | anyone else to do so.  This is not a 
                     | community-positive action.
                     | We have been helping people daily to learn to work 
                     | with all sorts of 
                     | troublemakers.  And I have seen very positive steps 
                     | in these directions.  
GG in meeting        | >?
Bob Jones            | In additon, we think these methods are suitable to 
                     | scalability(growth and 
                     | lots of it) wheresas micromanagement on our part or 
                     | retribution methods 
                     | on the part of individuals is not suitable for 
                     | growth.
                     | <done>
Eärendil <BUSY>      | GG, ga with your followup
GG in meeting        | Teresias, please try to give me a more concrete 
                     | answer ... there is 
                     | more between the extremes of preaching the word and 
                     | "march 
                     | jack-booted through the streets" ... if the populace 
                     | will demand 
                     | consequences on abusive behaviour as (e.g.) "loosing 
                     | all items" or 
                     | "becoming a chicken" ... will they get them or not?
Eärendil <BUSY>      | >
Indigo <Busy/>       | >
Bob Jones            | The answer basically is that there are not concrete 
                     | answers.  It does not fit 
                     | our general vision (it's a micromanagement method).  
                     | As specific as I can, it 
                     | depends on if you are talking about the people 
                     | coming to the Oracles 
                     | demanding one person be removed: I would expect that 
                     | there was a lot of 
                     | action taking place before this, that real honest 
                     | attempts had been made 
                     | bythe community to change the behavior of this 
                     | person (and I don't mean by 
                     | slapping the person with ToS threats).  If that was 
                     | the case, I also suspect it 
                     | would have come to the attention of the Oracles 
                     | prior to that and we would 
                     | have been making an attempt at correcting the 
                     | individual.  At that point, I can 
                     | see it, yes, there would be punitive actions which 
                     | could be taken.  We are 
                     | planning for a range of these in different forms.
                     | On the other hand, if you are talking about handing 
                     | the magic to everyday 
                     | avatars to perform these functions to anyone 
                     | anywhere. No.  The stipulation 
                     | being anywhere.  These become "weapons" which can be 
                     | abused by 
                     | anyone especially tourblemakers.  We hold this 
                     | stongly to the point that we 
                     | don't currently allow other avatars to use spraycans 
                     | on each other because 
                     | that is a "weapon" of graphitti and we have no "safe 
                     | areas" at this time.
                     | <done>
Eärendil <BUSY>      | I think you just answered my question...
                     | Indigo, ga 
Indigo <Busy/>       | I was going to speak on the same topic.  
                     | Yesterday there was an individual who Uni worked with
*SYSTEM*             | GG in meeting has left the group.
Indigo <Busy/>       | throughout a great part of the afternoon and early 
                     | evening.
                     | woops.
                     | Finally she stated ToS and asked his response.  
                     | (He was extremely abusive)
Eärendil <BUSY>      | <Watching for GG>
Indigo <Busy/>       | She asked him to leave, but he did after more 
                     | abusive 
                     | remarks  only to turn up again at the BarL.
                     | Difficulty for me, here, is our not comprehending 
                     | how to
*SYSTEM*             | GG in meeting has entered the group.
Indigo <Busy/>       | keep the environment from being continuously 
                     | polluted with 
                     | the language and actions of one so emotionally upset 
                     | and
GG in meeting        | sorry ..i didnt notice that i was disconnected for a 
                     | while :(((
Indigo <Busy/>       | I was talking about an extremely abusive individual 
                     | Uni and 
                     | some others of us on duty as Acolytes dealt with 
                     | yesterday 
                     | as an example.  What is confusing to me, 
                     | is how do we know what can be counted on, per se, 
                     | when 
                     | a situation gets that much out of control as it 
                     | seemed to 
                     | many yesterday.  We 
Eärendil <BUSY>      | >
Indigo <Busy/>       | worked very hard at positive reinforcement, etc., 
                     | and Uni 
                     | was outstanding!  But he kept showing up, 
                     | disclaiming his 
                     | former claims to "turning over a new leaf" and 
                     | polluting more 
                     | environments with very abusive behavior and 
                     | langiuage.
                     | I think what everyone wants to know, is just how much
                     | of a bottom line can be relied upon by us avatars.
                     | In such situations <done>.
GG in meeting        | >
Bob Jones            | I am afraid I cannot speak of this particular 
                     | incident as I have not had the 
                     | opportunity today (the srate of my work week) to 
                     | real Uni's log.  The bottom 
                     | line is that if someone is disrupting the service to 
                     | the point that we feel it is 
                     | genuinely harming the service, we will take whatever 
                     | action we can 
                     | including removing them from the service entirely.  
                     | I am not spelling out 
                     | what the Oracles can and cannot do, because there 
                     | are certain holes in our 
                     | current set of tools.  Holes I would rather not have 
                     | exploited at this time.
                     | <done>
Indigo <Busy/>       | Thank you.  That's clear.
Eärendil <BUSY>      | In a situation such as Indigo described, it seems to 
                     | me at 
                     | some point, the exercise becomes fruitless, and a 
                     | much better 
                     | technique would be to simply ignore the offender. Or 
                     | are the 
                     | Acolytes required to attempt to deal with the 
                     | situation until and 
                     | unless an Oracle shows up? 
                     | .
                     | ga
Indigo <Busy/>       | >
MarvL <busy>         | >
Zippy <busy>         | >
Bob Jones            | They should deal with it to the best of their 
                     | ability and then call upon an 
                     | Oracle if one is available.  At that point, it is 
                     | pretty much in the Oracles 
                     | hands.  They should do the best they can to resolve 
                     | it (up to holding a 
                     | court session and punishing the person) and should 
                     | that not occur 
                     | immediately (because not all situtaitons are 
                     | cut-and-dried) teach others 
                     | around how to deal with the person.  Oracle do not 
                     | hold the single power to 
                     | correct behavior, we consider the community our 
                     | "army" of sorts and if we 
                     | can show them actions with help us, we figure we are 
                     | doing service all 
                     | around. <done>
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Originally, Teresias asked for one question or so 
                     | per member; 
                     | as GG, Marv and Indi have all asked at least one 
                     | question, 
                     | Zippy, go ahead, then we'll get back to you others 
                     | as time 
                     | permits. :)
Zippy <busy>         | Sorry.....I think Teresias just answered me.   It 
                     | was:  Ignoring 
                     | the offender and/or trying to reason with them 
                     | should be the 
                     | first steps, IMHO.....but..., as in Indi's example, 
                     | once all the 
                     | various tools are in place, I think removal (even if 
                     | just 
                     | temporary) should be an option.  It provokes a lot 
                     | of anger and 
                     | stress on the others inworld at the time.  AND, I'm 
                     | sorry, but I 
                     | just don't think that is very fair to the other 
                     | avatars who are 
                     | paying a premium connect time to be enjoying 
                     | themselves 
                     | inworld.
                     | So, if I just paraphrased you...sorry
                     | ga
Elwing <busy>        | <nodding>
Bob Jones            | That's essentially where we plan to be in the future.
                     | We have lots of plans for little punishments 
                     | including cool down areas, 
                     | curses (speech modifications), etc.
                     | Right now, we don't have much beyond removing 
                     | someoen from the service 
                     | entirely.  But we are gtting closer.
Zippy <busy>         | ?
Bob Jones            | <done>
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Follow up, Zippy?
Zippy <busy>         | Removing them from the service.....is this a total 
                     | lockout, at 
                     | this time?   Or just a temporary removal???
                     | A temporary removal could also be an option
                     | for the time being
                     | ga
Bob Jones            | As I said we control the access to the world, so it 
                     | can be either.  Part of the 
                     | problems is that it is a non-trivial process at this 
                     | time so it cannot be used 
                     | on a whim.  There also needs to be follow up and 
                     | some of the mechanics of 
                     | that are not totally in place.
Zippy <busy>         | Errr....I hope NONE of this will be published, 
                     | Earendil...and 
                     | Teresias if this is confidential, please ignore me 
                     | :-)
Bob Jones            | It looks like I will be spending a fair amount of 
                     | time reading this weekends 
                     | exploits once I get from my "chambers" to the temple 
                     | offices.
                     | <done>
Eärendil <BUSY>      | LOL...
                     | To answer you, Zippy..
                     | I will send each member a copy of the conference 
                     | log; I think 
                     | the specifics of what is discussed today, should be 
                     | regarded as 
                     | confidential.
                     | GG, I think you were next..
Zippy <busy>         | I agree :-)
Bob Jones            | Whoa!
                     | I am afraid I am quickly running out of time.
GG in meeting        | well, up to now I havent seen an answer to my ">?" 
                     | after i got dumped 
                     | (regarding consequences) though i think Teresias has 
                     | answered it with 
                     | his "plans of little punishments" line already. Just 
                     | to make it clear: i 
                     | dont want these options for the normal avatar, but i 
                     | want them in the 
                     | hands of responsible people, e.g. Acolytes
Angel Gambler<busy>  | Don't worry, Teresias.  You're not alone.  :)
GG in meeting        | ga
Eärendil <BUSY>      | I think that was made clear, GG..unless Teresias has 
                     | somethign 
                     | to add to it?
GG in meeting        | sorry if i missed the answer while frozen
Bob Jones            | First, I don;t speak of the future because it 
                     | quickly becomes expectations 
                     | once it reaches other ears and I can't promise 
                     | *anything* for the future.  I 
                     | don't know what may come up or how the service focus 
                     | may shift (from the 
                     | perspective of the customers).  With that in mind, 
                     | will there be 
                     | "punishments" in the hands of the Acolytes.  Not 
                     | right away, even when the 
                     | oracles have them.  We will want to see the effects 
                     | they have on the dynamic 
                     |  of the community.
                     | <done>
                     | Did we get at least one Q from everyone?
Elwing <busy>        | I'll pass..
Angel Gambler<busy>  | I have none to ask, so I believe so.
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Everyone who wanted to, asked at least one :-)
Elwing <busy>        | My questions are being answered
Eärendil <BUSY>      | (I think)
Indigo <Busy/>       | A closure from me to clarify,   ignoring   was 
                     | definitely tried 
                     | yesterday.  I was at the desk with Hindemith for an 
                     | hour 
                     | with him in the earlier part of the day with others 
                     | in and out, 
                     | and this was a technique tried.  An avatar who was 
                     | new 
                     | was very upset at that, and was frightened that kids 
                     | would 
                     | see what was still pouring onto the screen... It was 
                     | at about 
                     | this point that Hindemith was able to contact Oracle 
                     | Uni.  
                     | Thanks Teresias for helping us understand better how 
                     | the 
                     | policy is structured.  It really helps all of us to 
                     | feel a 
                     | confidence I think we need at times!  :D
MarvL <busy>         | >
Elwing <busy>        | Agree!
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Can you take anymore questions? I think Marv is the 
                     | only one 
                     | left in the queue..
Bob Jones            | Okay.  But don't expect to see me in the world until 
                     | later today <g>.
Eärendil <BUSY>      | LOL...
Elwing <busy>        | <G>
Eärendil <BUSY>      | ga, Marv
MarvL <busy>         | Simply flooding the antagonist with random character 
                     | ESPs from several avatars, 
                     | thereby blinding them and possibly crashing them,  
                     | seems to be remarkably 
                     | effective in getting the attention of the 
                     | antagonists.  Are group actions such as this 
                     | discouraged, condoned, or encouraged by the Oracles. 
                     |  GA
Bob Jones            | Totally discouraged.
                     | I have had this discussiong with some others not 
                     | long ago.
Indigo <Busy/>       | That's good to know, Oracle Teresias.  
Bob Jones            | There are two very good reasons:
                     | 1) It is effectively a weapon against someone and 
                     | usualyl used in a reactive 
                     | way.  This will challange the other person to be 
                     | even more obnoxious than 
                     | before.
                     | 2) It teaches them how to use this weapon.  A weapon 
                     | which can be used to 
                     | kick Acolytes off the system and disrupt the service 
                     | we are trying to provide.
                     | Granted it's a loop hole in the software someone 
                     | could drive a truck through.
Zippy <busy>         | It's not one you would want others to know 
                     | (re...kicking out 
                     | the Acolytes)
Bob Jones            | We ask that those who figure this out and care about 
                     | the community, keep it 
                     | under their hats.  If we can do this until the 
                     | release of 1.0 (no dates yet), it 
                     | will help.
Eärendil <BUSY>      | When...oh...no dates yet <g>
Bob Jones            | Until then, let Acolytes who will let Oracles know 
                     | if anyone is using this 
                     | method in a harassing way.
                     | <done>
Angel Gambler<busy>  | <g>, Ear
Indigo <Busy/>       | Ok!!  I almost blew it with that one yesterday.
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Oracle Teresias, on behalf of the committee AND the 
                     | community, I want to thank you for the time you've 
                     | given us 
                     | today. I think what we're coming up with so far is 
                     | very much in 
                     | line with what you've said today.
                     | I think we've gained a valuable perspective, and I 
                     | for one, am 
                     | encouraged again that what we're doing is going to 
                     | help 
                     | everyone in the Dreamscape.
Elwing <busy>        | <-:  more nodding>
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Any final comments?
Elwing <busy>        | <g>
Indigo <Busy/>       | Hear Hear!!!!!! <GBG> ^[F7]
GG in meeting        | last >, but another topic (Hunter told me to ask an 
                     | Oracle for that one)
Eärendil <BUSY>      | LOL, GG
GG in meeting        | <g>
                     | Well, Hunter told me .. <g>
Bob Jones            | Thank you for your time and your attention.  I know 
                     | I speak for the other 
                     | Oracles when I say that we are heartened by the 
                     | goals of this committee 
                     | and offer any assistance we can in achieveing that 
                     | goal.
                     | (go ahead GG)
Angel Gambler<busy>  | Sure...blame it on the SysOp, GG...  <bg>
Eärendil <BUSY>      | Is that the 30T/hour when ghosted question? Cuz I 
                     | want to 
                     | know too...:-)
GG in meeting        | Thanks, Teresias .. Hunter told me to ask you about 
                     | the 30T/hour 
                     | inworld while being ghosted. This is a disadvantage 
                     | of people ghosting in 
                     | games or to let other ghosts come down into a full 
                     | locale
                     | LOL Eärendil
                     | ga
                     | (if i was understandable)
Bob Jones            | Yes and no.
                     | Sorry.
                     | You are understandable.
                     | The answer is yes and no that it is a disadvantage.
                     | First there is the way it has been presented: 60T as 
                     | an avatar and half that 
                     | much as a ghost.  
                     | Whereas, we originally thought it up as 30T as a 
                     | ghost, but 60T as an avatar 
                     | to encourage bodily activity.
                     | Right now, there is not a lot of difference between 
                     | being a ghost and being 
                     | an avatar because there isn't a lot to DO inthe 
                     | world.
                     | When there is, this differentiation might make more 
                     | sense.  We want to 
                     | encourage avatars to walk around (somethign which 
                     | should be better as 
                     | the software is updated).
                     | as this promotes social interaction (walking from A 
                     | to B you have a better 
                     | chance of someone trying to talk to you than 
                     | otherwise).
                     | A lot fo ghosted games came from CC where avatars 
                     | got 10T per day so it 
                     | wasn't much of an issue.
                     | But THAT method meant some people logged in once a 
                     | day, got their 
                     | tokens and left not providing a lot of social 
                     | interaction.
                     | Is this getting clearer?
                     | <done>
GG in meeting        | >?
Bob Jones            | GA, GG.
Eärendil <BUSY>      | GG..
GG in meeting        | I dont see the advantage of paying $1.95 for 60T
                     | so i dont really understand the need for the 
                     | difference
                     | ga
Bob Jones            | As I said, right now there isn't much difference.
GG in meeting        | P.S.: See my forum message where i offer EPROMs for 
                     | $25<g>
Bob Jones            | There isn't that much to DO (and only avatars can DO 
                     | things).
Zippy <busy>         | >
Bob Jones            | I can answer that without looking at it; I know the 
                     | argument.
Zippy <busy>         | LOL....never mind then <g>.
Eärendil <BUSY>      | LOL...ga then 
Bob Jones            | If you do NOTHING in the world to get the 800T for 
                     | an EEPROM, then yes, 
                     | you paid $25.  
Zippy <busy>         | > (that wasn't my remark)
Bob Jones            | But did you talk with people while earnign that 
                     | 800T?  Play a few games.  
                     | This is a service, not a shopping mall.  You get out 
                     | what you put in (to an 
                     | extent).
GG in meeting        | >!
Bob Jones            | So equating 800T to $25 is kinda shortsighted.  
                     | Granted, right now, we are 
                     | not providing a lot.  We don't have even a fraction 
                     | of what we want in this 
                     | service. 
                     | <done>  I guess GG wants to continue.  ga, GG
GG in meeting        | being ghosted in a game is more for the society than 
                     | standing in the 
                     | streets without a word .. and as you said, up to now 
                     | you cant do much 
                     | ... games (where you *have to* be ghosted) are some 
                     | of these little 
                     | things
                     | ga (done for real now <g>)
Eärendil <BUSY>      | ga, Zippy..
Zippy <busy>         | I just wanted to say that more beings can 
                     | participate during 
                     | the games when ghosts are allowed.....but, the games 
                     | run 2 
                     | hours as an average.  (So, in a way, people are not 
                     | getting the 
                     | full benefit for socializing and participating in 
                     | the 
                     | games...especially since not all will win.) ga
                     | >  I have also seen a *fight* over *who* gets to 
                     | remain as an 
                     | avatar during the game
Eärendil <BUSY>      | For any who need to leave, I'll keep the log going 
                     | until I'm the 
                     | last one here, and I'll send the whole thing to 
                     | you...we're over 
                     | 2 and a half hours now.
Zippy <busy>         | <sorry.....done this time>
Bob Jones            | Let me wrap this up by saying:
                     | I understand these issues.  From the perspective of 
                     | playing ghosted 
                     | games, it is not fair.  Ghosted games are not the 
                     | only issue at stake and if 
                     | we change the method for this point, it changes a 
                     | lot of other plans we have 
                     | for the future.  This is an example of what social 
                     | customs will survive in the 
                     | face of the environment.  Perhaps the introduction 
                     | of some games in the 
                     | form of games shows where contestants are selected 
                     | to play in body and 
                     | others may watch should they choose (or some form I 
                     | haven't thought of it's 
                     | a creative world out there) might start to flourish 
                     | under this system.
                     | Again, there are no concrete answers.  Changing on 
                     | variable causes a 
                     | ripple effect throughout the service.  
                     | <done>
Eärendil <BUSY>      | <g> Trust Vaz!!
Angel Gambler<busy>  | <g>
MarvL <busy>         | Tks!!!!   Should we assume that Halloween _might_ be 
                     | something special??
Elwing <busy>        | lol
Indigo <Busy/>       | Thank you for so  much of your time!
Elwing <busy>        | Yes, thank you .. this has been enlightening..
Zippy <busy>         | <giggle>....and Teresias and Uni   :-)
Elwing <busy>        | I move to adjoin.
Bob Jones            | Thank you for your attention. My apologies it went 
                     | on so long.
Elwing <busy>        | Not at all
Zippy <busy>         | Thank you for your time <g>!!!!!!
Elwing <busy>        | If you wish to stay longer..
Eärendil <BUSY>      | No need to apologize...I think we all learned a lot!
GG in meeting        | Thanks a lot from me too ... it *was* an important 
                     | meeting
Indigo <Busy/>       | Bye <waving> <GBG> F10 F3
Eärendil <BUSY>      | And Marv? I'd get your 'puter fixed by Saturday...:->
                     | Bye, Indi!
Elwing <busy>        | Bye, Indigo.. Fe
MarvL <busy>         | Cya!!!
Elwing <busy>        | F3
GG in meeting        | Bye Indi :) <F6>
Eärendil <BUSY>      | <F6>
*SYSTEM*             | MarvL <busy> has left the group.
Zippy <busy>         | Bye Indi!!!!!!  Hugs!!!!
*SYSTEM*             | Indigo <Busy/> has left the group.
Angel Gambler<busy>  | Bye, Indi!  Huuugggss...
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